tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post1698164960205276994..comments2024-03-23T12:38:46.260+00:00Comments on The History Girls: It Ain't Necessarily So.... by Elizabeth ChadwickMary Hoffmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06241989732624913706noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-9875019691971035622015-08-05T15:06:30.732+01:002015-08-05T15:06:30.732+01:00The Fontevraud effigies suggest that Europe's ...The Fontevraud effigies suggest that Europe's ancient monarchs where in all probability Black Europeans. Black people come in variety of complexions that are actually different, rather than differing grades of the same base complexion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11370916704001663059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-30162378975544408342013-09-27T12:29:29.564+01:002013-09-27T12:29:29.564+01:00Love the detail of her keeping her figure into old...Love the detail of her keeping her figure into old age. <br /> Zizou Alphonse Corder, PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06353000341283769987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-43806378318016490522013-09-26T07:48:29.249+01:002013-09-26T07:48:29.249+01:00So interesting - and an example of how once an ima...So interesting - and an example of how once an image has come into the mind, often from subconcious sources (if one can call Sophia Loren that!) it is hard to "see" the person, unless through sleuthwork like yours, Elizabeth. Penny Dolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16386668303428008498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-75631687377475305532013-09-25T15:58:45.949+01:002013-09-25T15:58:45.949+01:00Simply wonderful and as I have always said you are...Simply wonderful and as I have always said you are an historical sleuth and what's more you think it through and care. Delightful article.Carol McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11072696398820339640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-89272867961769214192013-09-25T04:10:45.662+01:002013-09-25T04:10:45.662+01:00It is so good to see an author, especially a well-...It is so good to see an author, especially a well-read author, taking the facts so seriously, even to the point of looking at the protagonist's relatives for some idea what she may have looked like. I love the accuracy.Debra Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03256313302199653185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-56474759555836446602013-09-24T19:00:10.365+01:002013-09-24T19:00:10.365+01:00I saw the tomb effigies in July when I visited Fon...I saw the tomb effigies in July when I visited Fontrevaud. I think they are all very stylised and it is probably difficult to reach any conclusions about likeness from them. Perhaps another 100 years would have to pass before likenesses could be executed that historians might depend upon.Bryan Dunleavyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550652628913169630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-35974844086650162632013-09-24T17:30:40.601+01:002013-09-24T17:30:40.601+01:00Thank you for all the comments!
Bryan, I think tha...Thank you for all the comments!<br />Bryan, I think that flight of fancy affect both sexes. I have absolutely no idea where some of those notions (male and female) come from. The red-haired one I can understand because it comes from a misreading of the Chinon mural. I can only think that the other assumptions come from a blanket notion that everyone south of Anjou had a Mediterranean complexion, and, if a woman, curves like Sophia Loren! If they are going by Alienor's tomb effigy, it shows her as a well-made woman, but hardly curvaceous, and the portrayal will be of her in her prime, not an old lady! Elizabeth Chadwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911841862257909703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-42541636640619771372013-09-24T17:19:00.477+01:002013-09-24T17:19:00.477+01:00That was really interesting. It is surprising that...That was really interesting. It is surprising that your research shows that men who are usually considered to be reliable historians can succumb to fancy when it comes to the undoubtedly fascinating Eleanor of Aquitaine.Bryan Dunleavyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550652628913169630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-8699098964492049912013-09-24T16:49:28.404+01:002013-09-24T16:49:28.404+01:00E. Chadwick's post makes more sense than any o...E. Chadwick's post makes more sense than any of the other previous authors descriptions of Eleanor. Are there even descendants of theirs living today that a DNA test could be done to even have a stronger 'guess' as to hair and eye color ? Now that would be very interesting!<br />Mik's $ Toyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00403027821643240380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-46014258082610722472013-09-24T16:42:03.177+01:002013-09-24T16:42:03.177+01:00Yes, I imagine her looking like Katharine Hepburn,...Yes, I imagine her looking like Katharine Hepburn, too. And perhaps art is close to fact there, because 'The Lion in Winter' shows her as a strong, definite kind of woman, and that, surely, was what Eleanor was. Or Alienor. But it IS salutory to reflect on how preconceptions establish themselves.. I guess, if you're writing non-fiction and can't just IMAGINE, it's tough to say: Well, we don't know. Which would be the most honest thing. History certainly isn't an exact science, that's for sure, it is riddled with speculation, opinion, etc, etc - as you say. I did enjoy this blog!Leslie Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15105465949970430998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-91102537284739522442013-09-24T15:42:58.473+01:002013-09-24T15:42:58.473+01:00Great post! Interesting that so many scholars desc...Great post! Interesting that so many scholars describe her the way they <i>want</i> her to look without any evidence, or the flimsiest of evidence.Tracy Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17668453323039794253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-82375189155011235522013-09-24T14:22:42.182+01:002013-09-24T14:22:42.182+01:00Two good examples of fiction becoming fact are Kin...Two good examples of fiction becoming fact are King Arthur and Robin Hood! Guys who probably never existed, or at least not as we now "believe" - Arthur as a Medieval chivalric knight sitting at his round table mulling over ways to find the Holy Grail & Robin Hood with his mates living a life of fun & beer drinking in the woods. Any "facts" behind these two are far removed from what we think of them - on the other hand, they've leant themselves to some darn good stories that have been told - so long live the fiction (as long as the facts that ARE known are correct facts!)Helen Hollickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292983846350273039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-24292753713454775042013-09-24T13:45:06.086+01:002013-09-24T13:45:06.086+01:00So it seems to me that I can still imagine her loo...So it seems to me that I can still imagine her looking like Katherine Hepburn. My favourite confusion of fact and fiction is when a reputable New York newspaper thought that Harry Flashman was a real Victorian General. (But is even this story true?) <br /><br />I guess that the search for accuracy doesn't always bear fruit but the finding of authenticity can. I'm sure your research will give you more insight into her and her time. Martin LakeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-2760770257188094912013-09-24T08:59:29.970+01:002013-09-24T08:59:29.970+01:00Fascinating, and so true about how myths, or gossi...Fascinating, and so true about how myths, or gossip, or half-truths morph into facts, especially from the shadowy Middle Ages when "history" was not recorded as we would expect today. The late digging up of "King Richard III" is a good case in point. Some things that have passed into "history" now appear to have been grossly exaggerated, although based on a hint of truth, if this scoliosis-afflicted individual is indeed the skeleton of the "hunchback" Richard III.sensibiliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08715737628925538412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-62924927335049997542013-09-24T08:56:37.601+01:002013-09-24T08:56:37.601+01:00Great post! I once read several 'factual' ...Great post! I once read several 'factual' biographies of Christopher Marlowe, and everyone was different. He was gay, he was straight, he was hot-tempered, he was of a mild dispostion, he was athiest, he was a devout Catholic, he wrote Shakespeare's plays, he was murdered, he survived, he was a spy, he wasn't...<br />And see this month's The Author for a completely invented meeting between Dickens and Doestoevsky, which was quoted as fact in at least two 'factual histories. - History is what's written, not the truth!Susan Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738737493756183909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-35885050823649106702013-09-24T01:16:34.128+01:002013-09-24T01:16:34.128+01:00Wonderful post! And how frustrating it must be to ...Wonderful post! And how frustrating it must be to get so much difference between the secondary sources and no primary evidence. Now I know why I don't write historical fiction, though I take elements of history. Too hard!<br /><br />A blonde and a redhead might produce a throwback with dark hair anyway. My own family has a large variety. My father was blue eyed, my mother hazel-eyed, my sister is brown eyed. And we all started blinde and became dark, though neither parent was blonde and my brother had two blonde children with his blonde wife and they are darkening. Go figure!<br /><br />I'll look forward to your new book.Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.com