tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post6115523698503695695..comments2024-03-09T11:34:22.175+00:00Comments on The History Girls: More Cross Dressing by Marie-Louise JensenMary Hoffmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06241989732624913706noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-85190302948555045422011-11-14T03:31:49.820+00:002011-11-14T03:31:49.820+00:00In my novel, The Flower to the Painter, a young wo...In my novel, The Flower to the Painter, a young woman artist in late 19th century Europe disguises herself as a man to advance her career. That's consistent with the theme of women in the past who cross-dressed to enter professions that were, for the most part, closed to them.<br /><br />As for male cross-dressing in history, the myth of Hercules and Omphale could provide a good basis for a story. Following some transgression of Herc's, the gods condemned the hero to serve Omphale, The Queen of Lydia for a period of time. While in her service, Hercules wore Omphale's clothing and took to female tasks, like spinning, while the Queen donned the hero's lion skin and carried his club. And they became lovers and enjoyed their game.Gary Inbindernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-69735921971789591842011-10-16T11:23:12.290+01:002011-10-16T11:23:12.290+01:00I agree with you Kath. But I was talking more abou...I agree with you Kath. But I was talking more about the wealthier classes. Very different rules applied to working girls like Alice (I love Ann Turnbull's novels too!)There were also very specific eras when women's fashions were so restrictive.<br />I've remembered another man-as-a woman in historical fiction; in Julie Hearn's Ivy, there's a man who dresses as a woman to lure rich girls away from their parents and steal their clothes - very creepy!Marie-Louise Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18006940874591015786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-11775338767299001092011-10-16T10:33:50.557+01:002011-10-16T10:33:50.557+01:00Here here for Ann Turnbull's wonderful novel. ...Here here for Ann Turnbull's wonderful novel. And a very interesting post, Marie-Louise.adelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15826710558292792068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-76235429043972762372011-10-16T09:21:02.208+01:002011-10-16T09:21:02.208+01:00Excellent points, Marie-Louise. I will delve into ...Excellent points, Marie-Louise. I will delve into those two Georgette Heyer books you mention to see how she does it.mary hoopernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-74545836600429411602011-10-15T22:06:54.376+01:002011-10-15T22:06:54.376+01:00I know exactly what you mean , but all the same it...I know exactly what you mean , but all the same it's not strictly true that real women didn't have adventures dressed as women. They did. It's just that writers, on the whole, have not chosen to write about them. Ann Turnbull's 'Alice In Love And War' is a great example of a riveting historical novel, set during the English Civil War, in which a young girl runs away from the farm where she live to follow her sweetheart as a camp follower to the army, and has more adventures than I should like to undergo - all in women's clothes. And there was Lady Anne Clifford who held Skipton Castle for the King - and what about the Pankhursts...? <br /><br />This is a discussion that can run and run. I think I'll make anothe contribution to it for my post in early November!Katherine Langrishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529700103932422873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-88461265142508314062011-10-15T21:23:36.605+01:002011-10-15T21:23:36.605+01:00Sadly you're right. And isn't there a smal...Sadly you're right. And isn't there a small history of men dressing as women to shame opponents they were fighting as well? I remember a prof telling us Heath Ledger's character in 'A Knights Tale' (who doesn't dress as a woman) was based on a real life man who dressed as a woman when he went to jousting contests. A sort of 'Ooo even a woman could beat you' shaming gesture. <br /><br />But wouldn't it be freaking lovely to have more boys dressed as girls in historical fiction if authors could do it without invoking laughs or shame? I would buy ALL those books.Jodiehttp://bookgazing.dreamwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-81889565912817029532011-10-15T10:21:24.911+01:002011-10-15T10:21:24.911+01:00I just saw the trailer for the newest Sherlock Hol...I just saw the trailer for the newest Sherlock Holmes movie... and how right you are! Even cool Robert Downey Jr only gets humiliating laugh appeal from dressing up as a woman. <br /><br />"I admit it's not my best disguise," says Downey as Holmes to Watson, then strips off his shirt to play a few more scenes with smeared lipstick and blue eyeshadow (VERY Victorian!) and topless.<br /><br />One of the valid occasions for a boy to dress as a girl is when he is in disguise in order to "shadow" somebody. (This works especially well if the boy is young, good-looking & gender ambiguous like P.K. Pinkerton, the hero of my new series set in Nevada in the 1860's.) <br /><br />But in the end you're sadly right: <i>It's not cool for boys to play at being girls.</i>Caroline Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07249424644829463560noreply@blogger.com