tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post8464504534095721757..comments2024-03-09T11:34:22.175+00:00Comments on The History Girls: To Catch the Moon with your Teeth: The Great Condé by A L BerridgeMary Hoffmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06241989732624913706noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-40974171122268228242012-08-14T10:06:20.408+01:002012-08-14T10:06:20.408+01:00Your hero might have had his hair de-greased, Loui...Your hero might have had his hair de-greased, Louise.<br /><br />In the 19th C women de-greased their hair with fuller's earth. You simply brushed it through and combed it out.<br /><br />I don't know about earlier use but fuller's earth was available.<br /><br />In the 17thC there was herbal vinegar to comb through - a delouse and degrease!<br /><br />And doesn't one of the herbals, - Culpepper's? - mention certain herbal preparations for keeping hair glossy?p.d.r. lindsay the authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07531238218297360461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-90883416461018445892012-07-26T01:46:25.429+01:002012-07-26T01:46:25.429+01:00Never too late to comment, Leslie, and it's ve...Never too late to comment, Leslie, and it's very much appreciated. I wish I'd had more space to go into the 'bad boy' element, but the thingh is horrendously long as it is!alberridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15986443240923520466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-44743911129740129062012-07-25T12:20:42.998+01:002012-07-25T12:20:42.998+01:00Maybe it's too late to comment, but I was away...Maybe it's too late to comment, but I was away when this went up and I have been looking forward to it. I enjoyed it greatly, both the blog and the fascinating correspondance afterwards. Thanks!Leslie Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15105465949970430998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-77363666615659090492012-07-21T00:50:39.858+01:002012-07-21T00:50:39.858+01:00I know nothing of the world of scripts & treat...I know nothing of the world of scripts & treatments, but this story could practically write itself - so sure, I'm game!bnachisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14404276643660920978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-2694459553314815442012-07-21T00:14:25.378+01:002012-07-21T00:14:25.378+01:00Thanks so much, Mark. It was beginning to worry me...Thanks so much, Mark. It was beginning to worry me that I seem to have 'sold' him only to women, when in reality men fell under his spell just as willingly.<br /><br />And Edi, thank you - as always, you are far too kind. I wish I could say you're right about the script, but unfortunately I have no gifts whatsoever in that line. As a script editor I worked with some of the most amazingly talented screen writers in the world, and know only too well that I'm not in that league.<br /><br />But Beth, you could be onto something with that mini-series idea. Maybe we should get our heads together and come up with a 'treatment'...?alberridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15986443240923520466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-18943745646684261402012-07-20T23:35:09.272+01:002012-07-20T23:35:09.272+01:00Louise, Louise,
what an impressive post. So rich i...Louise, Louise,<br />what an impressive post. So rich in content and emotional.<br /><br />It gave me a new point of view to your irresistible Chevalier series.<br /><br />Of course a visualisation in form of a film would be amazing.<br /><br />With your TV experience and your exquisite writing you are more than predestined to deliver a script.<br /><br />Am I wrong when I assume that there is the first draft of the script in the second from below drawer on the left side of your desk ;-)ediFanoBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11129248787624088717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-11428240119490508092012-07-20T23:08:19.223+01:002012-07-20T23:08:19.223+01:00Great post, Louise. Sounds a wonderful character, ...Great post, Louise. Sounds a wonderful character, and I heartily agree there should be books and a film.Mark Burgesshttp://www.markburgess.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-26245288693921335682012-07-20T20:50:00.001+01:002012-07-20T20:50:00.001+01:00Absolutely there should be a film! Or a mini-serie...Absolutely there should be a film! Or a mini-series. There's enough colorful Stuff there to run at least a couple of seasons on HBO... :)bnachisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14404276643660920978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-19133790358975811552012-07-20T20:34:59.247+01:002012-07-20T20:34:59.247+01:00I think you're spot on, Beth.
And I love the ...I think you're spot on, Beth.<br /><br />And I love the Bannister 'Condé in Context'. If I remember rightly, he includes a list of all the qualities expected of the 17th century honnete homme who is also a hero - including pieté, magnanimité, charité etc. If I'd had more room in the post I'd like to have added that - not the famous prayer after Rocroi (of which I admit to being highly sceptical!) but the magnanimity during the battle when he spared the tercio of Alberquerque. For me, it's actually his best moment on the battlefield.<br /><br />But we still need a proper biography. And scholarship aside, I really think there should be a film!alberridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15986443240923520466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-12813231955241366762012-07-20T19:33:28.542+01:002012-07-20T19:33:28.542+01:00I basically agree with you, Louise, he's very ...I basically agree with you, Louise, he's very much the Last Hero -- a perfect exemplar of an aristocratic mindset & ideology that was already in its death throes by the 1640s, completely moribund after 1660. (Even in terms of military leadership, he & Turenne were dinosaurs by 1675 -- Louis XIV & Louvois together pushed a policy of strategy-by-committee and by royal fiat that left field commanders little to no freedom, & is probably responsible for the dismal performance of French armies after 1680. Together Condé & Turenne had the experience & prestige to push back more or less effectively, but after Turenne died & his own bad health forced him into retirement Condé pretty much washed his hands of it & let the bureaucrats have it their way.)<br /><br />Lonesome George is right (except without the Lonesome).<br /><br />There's an interesting book on the subject, if you're not familiar with it: Mark Bannister, Condé in Context: Ideological Change in Seventeenth-Century France (Legenda 2000) - it's not a biography, but a look at how Condé's public image was used & interpreted in radically different ways throughout his life to reflect the various cultural & political models of the day.bnachisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14404276643660920978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-22652804363239208512012-07-20T17:54:11.140+01:002012-07-20T17:54:11.140+01:00Beth, that's a really brilliant contribution -...Beth, that's a really brilliant contribution - thank you so much. I didn't know the Primi Visconti anecdote at all (my main research is so far very vague after 1652)and it's *very* revealing.<br /><br />I've also been thinking about your comment on his 'second act'. You're right, of course, but to me it feels more like a 'sixth act' - a life going on when a tragic hero's would normally have ended. He seems to have been contented enough, but looking at the 17th century in retrospect I think he was really 'the Last Hero' - the last man who lived by the old ideals of chivalry. He outlived his own age and his own kind, and by the end he feels almost like a kind of Lonesome George.<br />(http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2012/jun/25/lonesome-george-giant-galapagos-tortoise-in-pictures)<br /><br />Except for the celibacy! Like you, I have considerable triuble believing in that...alberridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15986443240923520466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-30189382985205690932012-07-20T14:53:37.333+01:002012-07-20T14:53:37.333+01:00He definitely had *that*, whatever it is. Even on ...He definitely had *that*, whatever it is. Even on paper he's got it. When he's in the room he's *always* the center of attention no matter what he's doing or who else is there. (Which is probably one of the reasons the king didn't object to his almost never showing his face at court - quite the attention hog, Louis XIV.)<br /><br />Re the hair - yeah, he had great hair when he bothered. Mme de Sévigné practically swoons over it when he got himself done up for his nephew's wedding in 1682 -- it was all still there, thick & brown & natural, not a wig, & he'd let them get it all primped & curled & she thought he looked *really fine* that day. Plus - wonder of wonders, it was the talk of the town - he'd also shaved for the occasion Unheard of!<br /><br />Unfortunately, that was just for special occasions. When Primi Visconti called on him at Chantilly, as all distinguished foreigners did, he describes the Prince as having "the air of a brigand" - unkempt exterior, greasy hair, unshaven face, tobacco in his beard, crippled by gout - but also knowledgeable about everything, refined in his speech, with brilliant eyes and the features of an eagle.<br /><br />He'd had the best education money could buy, remained intensely curious about pretty nearly everything, supported many scholars & scientists, protected Huguenots, & retained a love of vigorous debate his whole life. After one particularly heated conversation Boileau remarked to a friend, Henceforward I will always be of Monsieur le Prince's persuasion, particularly when he's wrong.<br /><br />If I were still an academic, writing his biography would definitely be a project of my heart. There's been none in English since 1915 (by Evangeline Godley, who did quite a good job actually) so *somebody* should tackle it. There have been some decent ones in French, the best probably the 1995 one by Bernard Pujo. The archive at Chantilly is incredibly rich -- it has what seems like nearly every letter he received his whole life, plus some that he sent (his own handwriting is incredibly hard to read, he obviously wrote very, very fast) & a great deal more documentation besides.bnachisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14404276643660920978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-68129405438696342392012-07-20T13:26:17.898+01:002012-07-20T13:26:17.898+01:00Thank you both so much, Ann and Adele, for the sis...Thank you both so much, Ann and Adele, for the sisterly support! I've heard about the hair thing and am trying very hard it believe it about Condé, but have a nasty feeling that the 17th century equivalent of brylcreem (aka bear's grease) probably featured in there somewhere.<br /><br />And actually I don't mind. I don't think he was especially good-looking, and one of his amours even (allegedly) claimed he was a better soldier than a lover.<br /><br />What fascinates me is a man so intelligent and self-defensive he made up witty epigrams about his own failures, so sensitive he used to cry at the theatre, so kind he 'talked down' his own butler from suicide the night the King came and there wasn't enough fish for dinner,so fearless he went into battle less protected than his own soldiers - and so much a fool that he let even the stupidest courtiers play him like a harp.<br /><br />Brave fool. Wise fool. When his mother first recalled him from the battlefield to play a role in the Fronde, a friend found him singing a song of his own composition, which began 'Oh, la folle enterprise du Prince de Condé!'<br /><br />It's that. And I wish I were enough of a writer to say what 'that' really is. :(alberridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15986443240923520466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-72449270905474464922012-07-20T10:20:02.019+01:002012-07-20T10:20:02.019+01:00That thing about the hair....I never have the nerv...That thing about the hair....I never have the nerve to try it myself but I believe it is true. Too addicted to what hairdressers call PRODUCT, myself. But thanks, Louise for terrific post about a very fascinating person about whom I knew very little indeed. Marvellous.adelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15826710558292792068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-57120830782949814222012-07-20T10:08:30.637+01:002012-07-20T10:08:30.637+01:00I love the hair too! And apparently if you stop w...I love the hair too! And apparently if you stop washing your hair (and I'm sure Conde never started) it gradually settles down and becomes naturally clean and non-smelly. I know someone who has achieved this and her hair is beautiful - and clean!Ann Turnbullhttp://www.annturnbull.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-8649079594329923702012-07-20T08:32:16.413+01:002012-07-20T08:32:16.413+01:00Harriet, thank you for making me feel less of an i...Harriet, thank you for making me feel less of an idiot! You're right, it's the omelette that does the damage. I was doing a stalwart's job of resisting the charm until I read that.<br /><br />And thanks so much, Caroline. You're kinder than I am about the hair, because with 17th century men I'm always afraid it would be seriously greasy...alberridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15986443240923520466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-73652547930101427512012-07-20T08:26:29.082+01:002012-07-20T08:26:29.082+01:00Beth - a huge thank you for your comment. There is...Beth - a huge thank you for your comment. There is so much more to say about this man, and you've really helped round out the picture. We need at least 5,000 more words!<br /><br />But what's really needed, of course, is a proper biography, and I do hope someone will get round to it soon. How about it, Beth? I'm thinking of all those unpublished papers you saw at Chantilly...alberridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15986443240923520466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-28077679962767274532012-07-20T07:39:30.200+01:002012-07-20T07:39:30.200+01:00Speaking as the superficial person that I am: I LO...Speaking as the superficial person that I am: I LOVE the silky hair! I can see why you have an author crush. ;-)Caroline Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07249424644829463560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-39116916048293639952012-07-20T07:37:02.659+01:002012-07-20T07:37:02.659+01:00What a fantastic post! I knew nothing about Conde ...What a fantastic post! I knew nothing about Conde before reading this but your account is mightily persuasive. The courage, the cast iron sense of self, the joie de vivre... and that omelette! Thank you, Louise. Just brilliant.H.M. Castorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716936870601385683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-48427009639838468962012-07-20T05:26:19.207+01:002012-07-20T05:26:19.207+01:00Condé was certainly an unreliable, arrogant, woman...Condé was certainly an unreliable, arrogant, womanizing aristocrat (one should also add, obnoxious, sarcastic, and notoriously unkempt & dirty in an age that did not prize hygiene) but you're right - he's a deeply fascinating man, brilliant and complex and flawed.<br /><br />And unlike most tragic heroes, he did get a pretty good second act. The King gave him armies again, after all, and would have kept him in the field if he hadn't insisted on retiring. With Gourville's help he put his finances in order and was soon the richest man in France again. And he spent it well. He had Chantilly rebuilt as a paradise (the fountains Le Notre engineered were apparently astonishing, a now-lost wonder of the age). He kept a court there nearly as lavish as the king's, only full of clever people rather than bureaucrats and butt-lickers: he surrounded himself with the best poets and scholars and artists and conversation in France. Not a bad life for an old rebel. <br /><br />(One does wonder what happened to all the former womanizing, though. The sources grow remarkably quiet on that point after his return to France. Old mistresses keep turning up, but apparently no longer in that function. It would probably have been a little awkward even for him to carry on sleeping with his son's mother-in-law. He'd also outlived or quarreled with most of his male lovers. So... 20 years of celibacy? It hardly seems likely.)bnachisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14404276643660920978noreply@blogger.com