tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post5044736960130906193..comments2024-03-23T12:38:46.260+00:00Comments on The History Girls: WHAT'S IN A NAME? CENSORING THE PAST by Eve EdwardsMary Hoffmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06241989732624913706noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-19780821562239033992012-02-05T14:26:27.994+00:002012-02-05T14:26:27.994+00:00Coming to this very late but found it most interes...Coming to this very late but found it most interesting. I've often found myself glossing over the ages of my historical characters in Troy, Ithaka and Dido eg as some of the things they get up to are sort of 'over 16' stuff. I always say: about 16 when asked how old my protagonists are. Young, in any case.<br />About Censorship, in general, I'd rather explain old attitudes than have modernises versions but maybe in some cases....it's a difficult one!adelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15826710558292792068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-64164708409155820852012-02-03T21:02:56.785+00:002012-02-03T21:02:56.785+00:00I've recently written about the colonialist vi...I've recently written about the colonialist views in The Secret Garden for my Children's Literature MA and the interesting thing is that Hodgson Burnett for her time was actually fairly progressive-witness all the Orientalist romanticising of India and the New Ageish spirituality in TSG! I don't think anyone is urging a censorship or banning but I do think it's important that children read these books in an informed, questioning way, helped by the adult 'gatekeepers' be they parents/teachers/whoever.jongleusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06754014776263314905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-31988404625566657402012-02-03T20:01:00.378+00:002012-02-03T20:01:00.378+00:00I wrote about censorship in children's books f...I wrote about censorship in children's books for the <a href="http://newhumanist.org.uk/2404/banned-the-hidden-censorship-of-childrens-books" rel="nofollow">New Humanist</a>, though not specifically historical. Different publishers have different levels of tolerance, don't they? <br /><br />I did withhold one Barbar book from my bints until I felt they were old enough to discuss the racist attitudes in their historical context - I'd rather do that than censor a book. <br /><br />I've recently been rather outraged that consultants on a series I'm objected less to the violence described of Jack the Ripper than to the fact that the victims were prostitutes - the message that slashing women is acceptable in a book but being a prostitute isn't was particularly offensive, I thought. Not really the publisher's fault - they were told the libraries wouldn't take it with the prostitutes in.Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-49147898021795436672012-02-03T19:05:48.914+00:002012-02-03T19:05:48.914+00:00The more closely you try to stick to a period, the...The more closely you try to stick to a period, the harder it gets, I think, because people didn't just say and do different things from now. The way we assess people has changed too, and some things that perfectly nice people said and did a hundred years ago, now seem like the worst kinds of racism and sexism, of the kind we expect from lunatic far rightists. <br />Also what they thought was good was very different from now, too. So someone's virtuous behaviour in 1850 comes over as downright weird now. <br /><br />I'm not sure anyone has managed to convey a sympathetic histoical character to my satisfaction. <br /><br />Could go on about this for hours, it's been such a difficulty for me in my own writing.Jenny Woolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16881781466502273314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-68768748908006693072012-02-03T16:06:53.621+00:002012-02-03T16:06:53.621+00:00That's what happens when you use an automated ...That's what happens when you use an automated form of censoring. It's like Replace in Word. I changed a character's name from Chris to Tony and got words like Tonymas!<br /><br />Fanny in the US means the bottom. So when burton and Taylor were filming Taming of the Shrew and the director said "pat her on the fanny" he was very surprised by what (Dick) Burton did!Mary Hoffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241989732624913706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-27570173018493261742012-02-03T14:23:09.394+00:002012-02-03T14:23:09.394+00:00I meant to say in last line above "censoring ...I meant to say in last line above "censoring Dickens' name! Come on!"Susiehttp://www.susannacalkins.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-49753105757194545672012-02-03T14:21:56.547+00:002012-02-03T14:21:56.547+00:00fascinating post! yes many of those 19th and earl...fascinating post! yes many of those 19th and early-mid 20th century children's books are riddled with racial prejudices (not to mention tired gender stereotypes!). For example, the Nancy Drew books, I understand, have been reedited in their latest incarnation, to change the housekeeper Hannah's speech (and how she is described by Keene) to make the books more palatable to current readers (and their parents). As a historian, I tend to view these as opportunities to discuss how culture changes, but of course we'd have to read every book our children are reading to do this. (But editing Dickens? Come on!!!)Susiehttp://www.susannacalkins.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-38957005762759219652012-02-03T12:18:50.940+00:002012-02-03T12:18:50.940+00:00Yes, I absolutely agree about The Secret Garden, L...Yes, I absolutely agree about The Secret Garden, Linda. I was just a bit dithery in that moment, caught on the hop!H.M. Castorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716936870601385683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-29978021829588656612012-02-03T11:06:29.474+00:002012-02-03T11:06:29.474+00:00Harriet - I had a similar reaction to The Secret G...Harriet - I had a similar reaction to The Secret Garden when I re-read it recently, but I would be against sanitising it, on balance, because it offers such a useful example of how society changes. Eve - regarding censorship, my American editor required me to change a quote from Thomas Gainsborough when he said that he was tired of painting and wanted "to retire to some hamlet with his viol de gamba at the fag-end of his life." I would have been happy for readers to snigger because it would also have showed them that words have a lifecycle of their own. In the end I changed it to "in the autumn of his life"...Linda B-Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599899073420595717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-1040397465820044472012-02-03T10:16:08.365+00:002012-02-03T10:16:08.365+00:00P.S. I recently read F. Hodgson Burnett's '...P.S. I recently read F. Hodgson Burnett's 'The Secret Garden' to my children (never having read it before myself) and was totally unprepared for the racism in it. Had to decide on the spur of the moment whether to edit as I went along or read and discuss... Wonder if books like that - considered classics - are taken notice of by those who want to censor new works? Does anyone know?H.M. Castorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716936870601385683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-87654076818124659932012-02-03T10:11:43.626+00:002012-02-03T10:11:43.626+00:00Very interesting piece. I've recently read the...Very interesting piece. I've recently read the utterly brilliant 'Tender Morsels' by Margo Lanagan, which was published as a YA novel, first in Margo's native Australia. David Fickling Books (her publisher) are I assume unusually brave/boundary-pushing, and there was controversy. But in the light of the content of a book like that (I underline that I thought it was brilliant as well as uncompromising and challenging), arguing about the word 'cock' seems a tad absurd. This is about adult/parental concepts of what children should be reading, of course, but - as you say - it might be better to put one's outraged energy not into matters of vocabulary but into something like getting the Daily-Sport-type papers moved from child-eye-level (where they are relentlessly displayed, face out, in our local Co-op, for example). Or addressing the fact that they are considered socially acceptable at all.H.M. Castorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716936870601385683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-44072417399075347992012-02-03T10:07:16.606+00:002012-02-03T10:07:16.606+00:00Interesting blog. Plus it made me recall when we s...Interesting blog. Plus it made me recall when we studied 'One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich' at school in the 1970s. Our English teacher, Mrs Arafat (wow, I haven't forgotten her name), would read it aloud to us whilst skipping any swear words. We followed the words in our own copies of the book. Of course, thirty girls found this hilarious, although in retrospect I can appreciate it was tricky for her back then and she probably picked the best option. I wonder if the words would be read aloud nowadays? I think they're necessary for the veracity of the book.Paeony Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13129555451791248798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5502671101756463249.post-68963002941166280552012-02-03T08:45:50.356+00:002012-02-03T08:45:50.356+00:00When I was at a RC girls' school in the 1970s,...When I was at a RC girls' school in the 1970s, large chunks of Chaucer were 'redacted'. Of course, this only made us rush to the relevant pages in our modern translations. I can see why the teachers wouldn't want to read some of these passages in class! But the censoring itself was useless to even the most barely inquisitive child!<br />Interesting piece, many thanks!<br />BarbaraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com